This week, Meagan and Lola sit down with Michelle McPhee, investigative reporter and host of podcast Kingdom of Fraud, to discuss how Jacob Kingston, a fundamentalist Mormon from the secretive polygamist sect known as the Kingston clan, or the “Order,” teamed up with a shadowy Armenian tycoon nicknamed “the Lion” to commit one of the largest fraud schemes in U.S. history.
She’ll explain how Jacob’s drive to prove himself as one of over 100 siblings within the insular Kingston hierarchy got him in over his head with Levon Termendzhyan, his unlikely partner in the massive scheme they embarked on: it involved renewable fuel tax credits, international money laundering, powerful political connections, and billions of dollars. Plus, how they finally got caught–with the help of a couple of Trust Me’s previous guests.
SOURCES
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This week is part 2 with Anke Richter, journalist, author of Cult Trip, former member of Tantric group ISTA, and founder and director of New Zealand’s cult conference DeCult. In part 2 with Anke, she explains how the founder of International School of Temple Arts had constructed a sort of harem culture and was sleeping with all the women, where the line is between normal dating in a community vs. coercion, and how her journalistic investigation into a different tantra group while still actively in this one finally set off her alarm bells.
They discuss what’s positive about the tantric world, how the flip side of sex-positive groups can be a pressure to act sex positive when you don’t actually FEEL sex positive, and why she started cult conference Decult.
SOURCES
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Today is part 1 with Anke Richter, journalist, author of Cult Trip, former member of Tantric group International School of Temple Arts, and founder and director of New Zealand’s cult conference DeCult. In this week’s episode she shares how she began as a journalist investigating cults, but when she went to a tantric sex festival, she had a peak experience with ecstatic dancing that made her never want to go back to her old way of life.
She’ll talk about doing her first training in tantric pleasure, which got her deeper into ISTA and the idea of tantric polarity and exploring her feminine energy that she’d felt she’d been missing, and how the intensity and the highs she felt in these communities made real life seem boring. Plus, how there often aren’t a lot of sexual communities to choose from in general, which can create room for the sketchier ones to flourish.
SOURCES
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Today our guest is R. Derek Black, former poster child for white supremacy (now turned antiracist advocate) and author of the new memoir The Klansman’s Son. Derek, who came out as trans in this book, walks us through the white supremacist movement, where it stands now, what it was like growing up in a white nationalist family, being close to prominent neo-Nazi David Duke, how they were taught that the whole world misunderstood their "scientifically correct" ideology, and speaking to the press and becoming a public-facing figure of racism as a child. They’ll tell us about hosting a white nationalist radio show, going off to college, and how they began hanging out with a Jewish girl there who had no idea about this double life they’d been leading.
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Former members of the Two by Twos Kyle and Kari (the group that our Meagan grew up in) discuss the apocalyptic focus on the religion, personal stories of deconstructing their beliefs, the peculiar structure of the group led by pairs of ministers called "workers", how Kyle and Kari joined and met as kids, how it compared to Meagan's experience, what they did (and didn't) believe growing up, how the pandemic led them to question their beliefs, and how they found their way back to each other after a difficult period of disconnection. Stay tuned next week to learn about the Facebook they created for former members and the devastating news that came to light.
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This week, Dan Olson of the YouTube channel Folding Ideas joins the show for a deep dive into crypto, NFTs, and why so many of these spaces start to feel less like finance and more like belief systems. He breaks down the history of Bitcoin, what cryptocurrencies actually are, and how NFTs exploded into the mainstream, with investor communities promising not just wealth, but destiny–as long as they suppress their doubt and stay in line.
They discuss the gender divide and whether crypto is MLMs for men: same promises of prosperity, different packaging. Plus, some of the insider jargon and acronyms used to shut down skepticism, and how it all added up to a financial technology becoming a social identity.
And stay tuned for part two next week, when Dan will zoom in on the role of charismatic leaders in driving the decision-making.
SOURCES
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Groups!... I did it again. Jay Van Bavel, NYU Associate Professor of Psychology and Neural Science, Director of the Social Identity and Morality Lab, and co-author of The Power Of Us, discusses how our social identities change depending on our environment and context, how the groups we identify with affect our decisions and perception, and the importance of instilling healthy hierarchy in a group to prevent unhealthy leadership. They also discuss how emotionally charged situations can forge shared identities, how cults replace individual identities with group identities, what to do when someone has fallen prey to groupthink, and whether groups are even... good?
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In part 1 with guest Sarma Melngailis, subject of the docuseries Bad Vegan and author of The Girl with the Duck Tattoo, Sarma shares about her life as the owner of a successful vegan restaurant in New York, how she met the man who called himself Mr. Fox on Twitter when he seemed to know her friend Alec Baldwin, her first impressions of Mr. Fox, and some of the initial red flags she missed.
They discuss the way he slowly wormed his way into her life, how he first started asking for money in a way that seemed innocuous at first, and some of the many manipulation tactics he used to coerce her into transferring an astronomical amount of money to him--and ultimately blowing up her life.
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One is a former Mormon. The other was a child of evangelical missionaries teaching a doctrine called Accelerated Christian Education. Both of them were closeted gay men growing up in strict religious households. Today, Thomas and Micah share about their upbringings, how they met working at Disneyland (a type of cult unto itself), the personalized Book of Mormon that Thomas bought for Micah, and growing up in cultures that stigmatize homosexuality.
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Renee DiResta, professor and author of Invisible Rulers: The People Who Turn Lies Into Reality, joins the show again to dive deeper into disinformation, propaganda, and "pseudo-events," or manufactured controversies and news stories.
She explains why it’s so difficult to tell fact from fiction online, how propagandists stoke real, often legitimate tensions to create division, how American politicians are amplifying false information instead of shutting it down, and possible policies that could help reduce our culty social media silos.
SOURCES
Invisible Rulers: The People Who Turn Lies Into Reality
The Image: A Guide to Pseudo-events in America
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Episode 5: Lola and Meagan interview cult expert Steven Hassan on his experience joining the Moonies in the 70s, his book The Cult of Trump, what Trump has in common with cult leaders, how modern cult indoctrination happens online, and how to respond if someone in your life has fallen victim to QAnon. Follow Steve Hassan on Twitter: @cultexpert
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In part two of their conversation with deradicalized extremist and former Canadian government operative, Mubin Shaikh, Lola and Meagan dig into Mubin's meet-cute with his now-wife (who was not Muslim when they met), how little she knew about his extremism, why 9/11 was the turning point in his radical beliefs, and his deeper exploration into Islamic texts and interpretations. They discuss how he reached out to the Canadian government after a former acquaintance was arrested for a bomb plot, going undercover to disrupt a terrorist plot by the Toronto 18, the intervention work he's done, and how his work has impacted him emotionally.
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Jesus bootcamp, anyone? Musician Luis Favela shares what it was like attending the Christian youth training camp Honor Academy, part of an evangelical youth organization called Teen Mania Ministries. Luis shares his story about growing up as a religious youth leader, attending Honor Academy only for it to turn into a military style bootcamp, the physical and mental stress the "interns" had to endure in the name of Jesus, and how cat food factored in.
PLUS: Lola & Meagan discuss Young Life and climate change avoidance.
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Journalist Alice Hines and former Twin Flames Universe member Lorraine, both featured in the Amazon docuseries Desperately Seeking Soulmate: Escaping Twin Flames Universe, discuss the online community that was Twin Flame Ascension, what attracted people to it, how founders Jeff and Shaleia became more controlling and abusive over time, why encouragement to pursue one's twin flame sometimes led to restraining orders, the group's MLM-like structure, why you couldn't always choose your own twin flame, and their use of gender identity coercion.
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Today our guest is Yoni Shrira, friend of the show and survivor of the Family Foundation School, a troubled teen sobriety school that became notorious for how many of its former students died after going through the program. In part one today, he’s going to talk about what he was like as a teenager, how he was genuinely out of control when it came to drugs and alcohol, and why his parents believed the school was the best option to help him.
He’ll tell us about the religious undertones of the group, how the students were separated into groups they called “families,” the culture of constant fear and snitching, and why he thinks so many kids died. Plus next week, we’ll talk about some of the harrowing punishments the kids experienced and what it felt like to finally leave.
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Jan Broberg, kidnapping survivor and subject of the Peacock documentary Friend of the Family: True Evil (plus scripted series Friend of the Family), shares her story of how a man from church befriended her family when she was a child, grooming and seducing both of her parents to get to Jan. She discusses how the man, Robert Berchtold, kidnapped her and set up an elaborate scheme to convince her that she had a mission involving an alien race... and the way to complete it was to have his baby. And that's just the first kidnapping.
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Lola's friend, actor, artist, director, and the next Bob Ross, Barak Hardley talks about his previous life as an evangelical pastor, getting kicked out of the church, and transitioning to life as an actor in LA. Lola and Barak dive into the philosophy of art, the creative process, skepticism, self reflection, and how art can inform your beliefs about the world.
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Cognitive anthropologist Chris Kavanagh and psychologist Matthew Browne, hosts of the podcast Decoding the Gurus, share some of their criteria for what makes a guru, discussing a few of the many personalities they've covered on their podcast: Elon Musk and Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan, oh my. They discuss the horrors of social media, the importance of trusting experts (but how academic credentialism can lead people astray too), how the biggest internet gurus tend to skew male, and why basically we need more scientists with mass appeal.
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In the second half of their conversation with Kingston Clan survivor Priscilla Tucker, Lola and Meagan learn more about the leader of the group, why being sent to a bad kid camp turned out to be a positive experience for Priscilla, and how she worked for billion-dollar fraudster Jacob Kingston, ultimately helping the FBI take him down. Plus, how Priscilla ended up finally getting out of the group, thanks to the show Escaping Polygamy (and Lola's mom!).
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Ever joined a sorority? It's all Greek to us! Former sorority member and Ice Cold Case podcast host Madison McGhee shares how she always dreamed of joining a sorority, which one she chose after growing up Christian, what the process of joining was like, being the only person of color in the sorority, how she was punished for not straightening her curly hair and prevented from holding a leadership position, feeling ostracized to the point that it harmed her mental health, and why it's so hard to create healthy group culture in Greek Life.
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Former Sea Org member and niece of Scientology leader David Miscavige, Jenna Miscavige, talks about leaving "The Ranch" in order to join the Sea Org, getting involved in higher level management, how she barely knew her own parents, the constant level of paranoia she saw from everyone at all levels, what it was like to date within the Sea Org, how she threatened to kill herself to get her partner out of highly controlled isolation, the potential whereabouts of her Aunt Shelly, how a trip to Australia served as the catalyst for her to leave, and was threatened with family separation and followed by private investigators.
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This week, the girls are joined by Arabelle Sicardi, writer, image theorist, and author of The House of Beauty: Lessons from the Image Industry. Lola and Meagan confess the cosmetic procedures they've each had, and Arabelle explores how the beauty industry preys on our deepest fears, giving us a false sense of control and training us to worship ideals that are impossible to reach. They reflect on the high rates of plastic surgery in Utah and the LDS church, the gendered differences between the beauty industry and biohacking, and the relationship of beauty to power.
Arabelle breaks down the cultiness of influencer brand trips, Coco Chanel's forgotten Nazi ties, and how easy it can be to isolate in luxury, detaching from the unseen global exploitation within the beauty industry. Plus: why beauty's true value lies not in perfection, but in human connection.
SOURCES:
The House of Beauty: Lessons from the Image Industry
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Episode 72: Lynn Short, former member of the Armageddon cult the New Gnostic Society, shares how her relationship drew her to the group, the belief that their original guru was resurrected, working as a missionary, doomsday predictions, their use of lucid dreaming and withholding orgasms, what Lynn describes as "spiritualized depression," and the nails in the coffin for leaving.
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Dr. Inna Kanevsky, psychologist, professor, and debunker of pseudoscience psychology TikToks, discusses the misinformation videos that got her started on the path of debunking, why mental health labels can be helpful but can also lead us to incorrectly self-diagnose and take on labels that do not belong to us, and why it’s a problem when we make a diagnosis our identity. She comes in HOT about beloved psychology figures such as Bessel Van Der Kolk, Gabor Mate, and Dr. Amen, and how they have cult-like followings despite frequently peddling pseudoscience. Plus, we chat about the problems with polyvagal theory, why stories of resilience can be a helpful alternative to focusing on trauma, and why it is so dang painful to change our minds!
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Episode 68: In part two of their conversation with Sinasta Colucci, Lola and Meagan dive into the dramatic forbidden romances he experienced while in Twelve Tribes, the racist doctrines that were kept from him until he was already committed to the group, and a big secret that the community leaders covered up.
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This week, the show is joined by Parvati Shallow, two-time Survivor winner, current cast member on The Traitors, and author of Nice Girls Don’t Win: How I Burned it All Down to Claim My Power. Parvati shares about her childhood growing up in the Kashi Ashram, a high-control commune led by Joyce Green–or, as she made everyone call her, “Ma”. She discusses Joyce’s origin story and how she claimed to have experienced the stigmata, Joyce’s relationship with Ram Dass (who he later said he’d been bamboozled by her), and how she became increasingly coercive and controlling, including taking children from their parents and instructing members to scam their own families for money.
Parvati reflects on how her parents escaped but ultimately came back to the group, what it was like living on the commune and being wild in nature, and how surviving that environment shaped her instincts, resilience, and ability to read people–skills that later helped her win Survivor, and how she’s now unpacking what it means to reclaim her power on her own terms.
SOURCES
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Psychologist, trauma bond expert, and author of Run Like Hell: A Therapist's Guide to Recognizing, Escaping, and Healing from Trauma Bonds, Nadine Macaluso share about her relationship with ex-husband Jordan Belfort (aka The Wolf of Wall Street) and how it led her to become a therapist with a focus on trauma bonds. They also discuss "mind mapping", intermittent reinforcement, the difference between intensity and intimacy, the three phases of trauma bonds and how violence can play into them, why Nadine uses the term "pathological lover" instead of narcissist, how to tell if you're currently in a trauma bond, and green flags that are the sign of a healthy relationship.
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Journalist Claire Hoffman joins us again, this time to discuss her new book Sister, Sinner: the unbelievable true story of Aimee Semple McPherson, a glamorous Pentecostal preacher who pioneered entertainment evangelism. McPherson was so famous in the 1920s she could have been a Kardashian.
Claire talks about how the early televangelist used theatrics and mass media to build an empire around her preaching–only to mysteriously disappear in 1926, leading to one of the most notorious court cases of the time. The girls unpack early 20th century fame, faith, scandal, and the dangers of worshipping cultural icons.
SOURCES:
Sister, Sinner
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When #BossBabe culture goes wrong. Author of Hey, Hun: Sales, Sisterhood, Supremacy, and the Other Lies Behind Multilevel Marketing and former member of an MLM she calls Rejuvinat, Emily Paulson, shares how she was first introduced to the group by a friend from school, how it seemed to be the perfect way to bring purpose and extra income to her stay at home mom lifestyle, how her very specific circumstances helped her to be really good at it, being a top seller who was put on display by the group as a success story, the role her alcoholism played, the myth of how easy it is to turn a profit in an MLM, the drastic disparity between top and bottom earners, and how she was encouraged to use her cancer story to sell more product.
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Today is part one Ian Rafalko, a former scientologist from a prominent scientologist family AND son of a prominent YouTube health guru. We explore how his family joined Scientology, what it was like growing up in a group where children are treated as adult spirits in small bodies, whether Scientology creates little sociopaths, and some of the more detailed ins and outs of the system and beliefs. We’ll also talk about Ian’s experience as an auditor, how his rebellious nature started getting him in trouble, the ubiquitous culture of snitching, and how he started to deconstruct his upbringing.
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Chris Bail, professor and director of the Polarization Lab at Duke University, talks about his work in computational social science, why social echo chambers don't work the way we think they do, how our needs for identity and community factor into extremism, and why the moderate majority is the quietest online. Plus, what online trolls are like in real life, how society's attraction to narcissists is part of the problem, and what a better social media could look like.
Learn more about Chris' work HERE!!!
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Get your pocket constitution ready. Antonio Perez, a former conspiracy theorist who followed Alex Jones, shares why Jones' over-the-top theories about the New World Order appealed to him, how Antonio's addiction factored into his dopamine-seeking thinking, and why building an internal locus of control can help avert conspiratorial thinking. Plus, how he finally stepped away from the deep state obsession, and the book he's writing on how to help people think for themselves again.
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Actor, director, and activist Rosanna Arquette discusses her childhood growing up on a commune that was part of the Subud spiritual movement, her mom's journey from her own abuse to helping other women, the racism she saw in the community outside of the commune, her own personal experience with Harvey Weinstein's harassment, the subsequent changes she felt in her career, speaking out against Weinstein, and being a part of a movement that changed the world.
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Episode 53: Ever heard of a cult specialist? Therapist and IndoctriNation podcast host Rachel Bernstein shares what healing looks like after leaving a cult, common themes in manipulation recovery, signs that someone is in a high-control group or experiencing dissociation, and advice for those with loved ones in a cult.
If you have your own story about cults, high-control groups, manipulation, or abuse of power, shoot us an email at trustmepod@gmail.com.
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Episode 30: You’re a teenage girl in the late 60s, bouncing between communes, when a charismatic man and his group of young women welcome you with open arms. You were looking for a family, and now you’ve found one. In part one of an incredible interview, Dianne Lake, aka “Snake,” and her co-author Deborah Herman discuss growing up in 1960s counter-culture, the dark side of the sexual revolution, and what it was like becoming the youngest member of Charles Manson’s family. Stay tuned next week for part two, in which she tells Lola & Meagan how she learned about the murders!
If you have your own story about cults, high-control groups, manipulation, or abuse of power, shoot us an email at trustmepod@gmail.com.
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In part one of her interview with Lola & Meagan, Children of God survivor and military veteran, Daniella Mestyanek Young, discusses being raised in the Children of God, the various forms of punishment she and the other children experienced, how child sexual abuse was not only encouraged but part of the belief system, how the youth were taught to practice for raids and lie to protect the group, why 9/11 was a turning point in her beliefs, and how she finally left the cult.
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It's Conspiracy Month! In our first episode of the series, Lisa Fazio, Associate Professor of Psychology at Vanderbilt University, discusses how we come to believe falsehoods, why none of us are experts at discerning fact from fiction, and how repetition can make false information seem more true. She'll discuss why misinformation spreads so easily on the internet, ways we can protect ourselves from bad information (spoiler: it's hard), and how human memory is wildly unreliable - and, unfortunately, manipulatable.
PLUS: Lola shares how her mom and stepdad spent the last year working to secretly take down polygamous cult leader Samuel Bateman.
Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, or abuse of power? Leave a voicemail or text us at 347-86-TRUST (347-868-7878), OR shoot us an email at TrustMePod@gmail.com.
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Casting director and former Christian G Charles Wright talks about growing up Christian and struggling with his sexuality, a natural disaster he was caught in the middle of, why he calls his mom a psychopath, and how he shed the influence of his upbringing and finally accepted himself and his sexuality.
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Today our guest is Maggie Rowe, former writer on Arrested Development and author of Sin Bravely, a book about her experiences with moral scrupulosity, or sin-focused OCD. We talk a lot about OCD on this show, so here’s a guest who wrote an entire book about growing up with religious obsessions! She’ll tell us about her first obsessions about what was and was not sin, how she started to analyze the Bible with a critical mind to try to understand how to avoid hell, and how her parents tried to help but her church leaders didn’t understand OCD and made it worse.
We’ll talk about the compulsions she would engage in to make sure she was being the right amount of righteous, how she checked herself into a treatment facility for Christians, the incorrect diagnosis of bulimia she received, and how she finally got diagnosed with moral scrupulosity and began getting the treatment she actually needed.
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Episode 48: Can success be its own cult? Lola & Meagan delve into how abuse of power plays into the entertainment industry, the experiences they've had firsthand with people in power, and the dark side of the pursuit of stardom.
If you have your own story about cults, high-control groups, manipulation, or abuse of power, shoot us an email at trustmepod@gmail.com.
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Cult interventionist and founder of People Leave Cults, Ashlen Hilliard, talks about her path to working in cult intervention and recovery, her personal religious experience that led her to this work, how interactions with Mormons in Utah affected her worldview, how she defines what a cult is, why accusing a group of being a cult isn't always helpful, how cult intervention today is different from how it was in the 70s, how it used to involved kidnapping and unethical practices, how her model takes a harm reduction approach, and when cult intervention practices can become culty themselves!
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Episode 11: Lola and Meagan finish their interview with Naomi Gibson, former member of both the Children of God (aka the Family) and NXIVM. In part two of this two-part episode, she talks to the girls about how Mark Vicente recruited her into NXIVM, what she loved about J'ness, and how she was involved in the cult's unraveling. www.trustmepod.com
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Episode 62: World famous mentalist and magician Banachek joins Lola & Meagan to discuss the difference between mentalists, magicians and psychics, how he became involved in a parapsychology research project called Project Alpha, and how you can become emotionally invested in something that you know is an illusion!
If you have your own story about cults, high-control groups, manipulation, or abuse of power, shoot us an email at trustmepod@gmail.com.
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A Million Little Things star Allison Miller shares with Lola & Meagan how she was once a client of a culty alternative medicine clinic run by a couple who claimed to know how to heal her chronic bladder condition, Interstitial Cystitis (also known as Painful Bladder Syndrome). They dig into the societal reason why women have to resort to these measures to begin with, the extremely controlled diet and lifestyle she was told to adhere to—even when she began feeling worse, and how she became severely orthorexic, terrified of most foods, chemicals, and places. Plus, how she eventually stepped away from the group.
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Dr. Marc Feldman, professor of psychology and expert in Munchausen by Proxy, talks to the girls along with survivor Jordyn Hope for an information-packed episode. Dr. Feldman discusses why he prefers the term medical child abuse (MCA), some of the more extreme cases he's seen, red flags he looks out for, and how parents get doctors to believe and treat their children's fictional illnesses.
Jordyn shares how they were medicated by their mom as a child, receiving surgery and treatments for conditions they never had, how they came to realize they had experienced MCA, and what it was like discovering evidence on their medical records, including learning that one doctor had tried to help.
Plus, can perpetrators be treated? Can it be passed down? What's the difference between hypochondria and MCA, and what's the path to recovery for survivors? AND: resources for people who've experienced medical child abuse including:
- https://www.munchausensupport.com
- https://www.nobodyshouldbelieveme.com
- https://www.amazon.com/Dying-be-Ill-Marc-Feldman/dp/1138063835
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Musician and former FLDS member, Marji Mozart, discusses her wedding day as an underage bride who had never been taught about sex, her multiple marriages including one to her sister's husband, the pain of feeling that her dreams of becoming a musician were dead, how spending time in the hospital with her child led staff to suspect that she was in an unhealthy relationship, and how she eventually left rekindled her life of pursuing music.
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Time to level up. MLM expert and author of Ponzinomics, the Untold Story of Multi-Level Marketing, Robert Fitzpatrick, discusses the history of MLMs including why they took off in the 80s, their connection to the American Dream and economic inequality, the biggest scams he's seen over the years, how MLMs disconnect people from their identities, and what we can do about it if its happening to someone we love.
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Learn more about Robert's work at https://www.pyramidschemealert.org/
Support victim survivors and prevent further abuse at https://voicesforthetruth.org/
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From Even Stevens to Kim Possible, Disney Channel legend and Vulnerable podcast host Christy Carlson Romano talks about the difficulties of being a working actor from such a young age, what it was like to be well-known, and the pressures of stage parents. She also discusses the "toddler to trainwreck pipeline" and the lack of an exit strategy from child stardom, the flaws in the existing infrastructure meant to support young performers, and how the film industry can do better.
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Episode 64: You're young and struggling to make ends meet. Then you get invited to live in the lap of luxury in a place far away... with no guarantee of your safety. Writer Jillian Lauren recounts the events from her book Some Girls: My Life in a Harem as the guest of the Prince of Brunei, including how she was first recruited, how what she went through was similar to the Bachelor and the Hunger Games, the level of sadism she experienced, and the backlash received from her family for writing the book.
If you have your own story about cults, high-control groups, manipulation, or abuse of power, shoot us an email at trustmepod@gmail.com.
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